Lot's children had a large dinner party & they all died. Jesus Christ had a large dinner party & was cruficied. So consequently, all large dinner parties are condemned by Jehovah.
Great. My evening is ruined.
Franklin Massey
JoinedPosts by Franklin Massey
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42
JWs Celebrating Brithdays
by Franklin Massey ini keep hearing of more and more jws that are celebrating their birthdays or, doing "special days" for their children on the day of their birth.
i'm sure this has always been done but what interests me is that many people aren't ashamed to admit it since they have used their own fully functioning minds to figure out that the society's birthday ban doesn't hold up.
one young couple with two kids (he's an ms, she's an ex-pioneer who dropped off the list to tend to the kids) explained it to me this way.... "the happiest days of our lives include the births of our children.
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42
JWs Celebrating Brithdays
by Franklin Massey ini keep hearing of more and more jws that are celebrating their birthdays or, doing "special days" for their children on the day of their birth.
i'm sure this has always been done but what interests me is that many people aren't ashamed to admit it since they have used their own fully functioning minds to figure out that the society's birthday ban doesn't hold up.
one young couple with two kids (he's an ms, she's an ex-pioneer who dropped off the list to tend to the kids) explained it to me this way.... "the happiest days of our lives include the births of our children.
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Franklin Massey
I have yet to hear of anyone throwing a full blown birthday bash with all the trimmings. My area is not liberal. More middle of the road. I think it is conservative here but when compared to some of the stories I read here I would have to say my area is more balanced. The couple quoted above that have started to celebrate their kids birthdays are from a more liberal area. Here it is more like going out for drinks with friends on your birthday, a "Special Day" for the kids, small gifts, a phone call or text from a few people wishing a "Happy Birthday!" I think Mr. Mustard brings out a good point, that being the extent of the party. It seems like there is a rationalization process that allows some to carry on birthday-ish activites without going full force. This is different from when I was growing up. It was frowned upon if you said, "Happy Birthday" even in jest.
So, don't expect to get an invitation to a kid in your hall's birthday party - and don't be surprised when you visit their house and find out that little Joey just got an XBox around the same time as his birthday.
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42
JWs Celebrating Brithdays
by Franklin Massey ini keep hearing of more and more jws that are celebrating their birthdays or, doing "special days" for their children on the day of their birth.
i'm sure this has always been done but what interests me is that many people aren't ashamed to admit it since they have used their own fully functioning minds to figure out that the society's birthday ban doesn't hold up.
one young couple with two kids (he's an ms, she's an ex-pioneer who dropped off the list to tend to the kids) explained it to me this way.... "the happiest days of our lives include the births of our children.
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Franklin Massey
A few things that the Birthday Rule Reformers are doing are the above mentioned "Special Days" and the "We didn't have a party" line.
The Special Day is like the JWs who give their kids a few gifts over the Christmas break from school because they don't want their kids to feel left out of the fun that all of their schoolmates are having. "We didn't give the gifts on Christmas. We all just had the time off of work and school so it was a good fit."
The not-an-actual-party thing shows respect for the lives lost at Biblical birthday parties (as if that is what it was really all about) while still leaving room to acknowledge the explusion of a child from its mother on the day in which that event happened.
I forgot about Thanksgiving dinners, too!
Pretty soon, JWs will be celebrating half of the holidays all while remaining, technically, in the safe zone.
The problem is when someone gets offended. I've seen elders meetings called for the most trivial matters just because someone in the KH got bent out of shape about something another person did.
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JWs Celebrating Brithdays
by Franklin Massey ini keep hearing of more and more jws that are celebrating their birthdays or, doing "special days" for their children on the day of their birth.
i'm sure this has always been done but what interests me is that many people aren't ashamed to admit it since they have used their own fully functioning minds to figure out that the society's birthday ban doesn't hold up.
one young couple with two kids (he's an ms, she's an ex-pioneer who dropped off the list to tend to the kids) explained it to me this way.... "the happiest days of our lives include the births of our children.
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Franklin Massey
I keep hearing of more and more JWs that are celebrating their birthdays or, doing "special days" for their children on the day of their birth. I'm sure this has always been done but what interests me is that many people aren't ashamed to admit it since they have used their own fully functioning minds to figure out that the Society's birthday ban doesn't hold up. One young couple with two kids (he's an MS, she's an ex-pioneer who dropped off the list to tend to the kids) explained it to me this way...
"The happiest days of our lives include the births of our children. We have a blessing in our family that we want to reflect on when our kids' birth dates come around. We (meaning husband and wife) can celebrate our wedding anniversary with no consequence. How is a child's birthday any different? It's a day to celebrate life and family. Try explaing to your kids that you can't give them a gift or have a speical dinner on their birthday because in the Bible someone got killed at a birthday party. That logic could apply to all parties not just birthdays. It's not like anyone is going to 'lose their head' because we want to celebrate how happy we are to have two beautiful kids."
That "lose their head" comment cracked me up. Not only was it witty but it also points out how flimsy the anti-birthday arguement is.
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Being honest with yourself, could you have reasonably adjusted your attitude and continued on as a JW?
by miseryloveselders ini ask this question in harmony with deedub's swan song thread which i linked below.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/205902/1/time-to-say-good-bye.
to some degree, i think i understand where she's coming from.
just speaking from my own experiences since stepping into the world of anonymous apostacy, i went through a few different phases of personal outlooks.
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Franklin Massey
Good topic Miz.
Welcome Bafh!
Miz, you said and not being able to express all of my views with fellow JWs for fear of ostracism. To put it simply, I'm not a fan of the WT's micromanagement as they go beyond whats written. At the same time, I have to admit that there's plenty of institutions everyday people are a part of, that during their involvement with, they cannot speak their mind too openly. Such as school, or your place of employment. Why should we expect any more with any religious institution?
Not being able to have open discussion is one of my biggest problems. True, many institutions have guidelines in which to follow. The WT takes it to a whole different level, though. It has positioned itself as a High Control Group.
In a classroom, the student is allowed to ask questions of the teacher. Often times, this gets the whole class engaged in a meaningful discussion. This is not allowed at a congregation meeting. The instructions for how to conduct a meeting and how to participate limit any real thinking. This trickles down into private inter-JW conversations. JWs learn what to say and what not to say, whether we believe it or not. We parrot the "correct" responses and typical language as we have memorized (read: been indoctrinated by) them. If someone unfamiliar with JW teaching heard us speaking about doctrine it would sound like incomprehensible jargon. Asked to explain doctrine free of jargon (i.e., explain it in your own words) and the average JW gets stumped. Or, try saying to a fellow JW that you see some convincing arguments for evolution and watch the jaws drop and let the squirming begin. Non WT thought is not to even be considered.
At a place of employment, employers appreciate feedback about how to improve operations, be more efficient, and correct costly mistakes. Most businesses hold monthly meetings where employees have a chance to discuss concerns. In the congregation, there is no such forum. Question doctrinal error = apostasy. Critique a poorly functioning servant body = working against Christ's appointed representatives. Suggest a more effective method of preaching the good news = going against the Society's direction. It doesn't matter if you are right. In these cases, if you have anything non-flattering to say about the Org, you're wrong by WT default.
All I would like is the opportunity to take some of the issues that perplex me and discuss them openly with the people I love the most. I'm not free under the WT umbrella to do that. I'm positive that I have found truth beyond the walls of the WT. But if I think it, I'm guilty of thought crime. If I speak it, I'm guilty of apostasy. I risk being cut off. There is not "agree to disagree" option. There is no "I respect your opinion-you respect mine-let's coexist peacefully" option. I'm being made an enemy simply because of a few disagreements. The power that the WT holds over the minds of its followers is frightening.
So, to answer your question, I can never go back to robot mode. To adjust my attitude would be to turn my back on real truth. So for now, I'll slug through it.
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"If this 'system of things' goes on..."
by Franklin Massey ini have been hearing more people saying this now than ever.
especially those in the over-40 crowd.
i just got off the phone with an older jw family member who was reviewing options for golden years living.
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Franklin Massey
Blues Brother, your comment reminded me that we had a CO say from the platform a few months ago, "Some think that if someone is a just good person, Jehovah will see that and spare them at Armageddon. That's not true. If they are not a Witness in good standing, they will not be spared." Looking back, I wish I had stood up and walked out.
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"If this 'system of things' goes on..."
by Franklin Massey ini have been hearing more people saying this now than ever.
especially those in the over-40 crowd.
i just got off the phone with an older jw family member who was reviewing options for golden years living.
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Franklin Massey
no longer do we think the society has the answers to this one!!
A older brother in my hall that I have a lot of respect for was upset by the "overlapping generations" teaching for this very reason. He said something to the effect of, "I wish we would stop toying with these dates and predictions. The Bible says not even Jesus knew. Why should we put ourselves above Jesus by trying to figure this out?"
I get so much joy when someone uses basic logic and reason to think for themselves.
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2011 Yearbook - "Tracing All Things with Accuracy"
by pirata in2011 yearbook - "tracing all things with accuracy", p.9-13.
jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.
" christ thus indicated that those who dispense this "food" would be conscientious, prudent, and discerning in providing spiritual food for the household of faith.-matt.
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Franklin Massey
They can't see it because they don't want to see it. The implications of being wrong are too painful for some. I think ehe WT knows this and they give people just enough self assurance to reason away lingering doubts. "You may have heard negative things about the WT on the internet. Well much of what is on the internet is false and we work hard to bring you truth so ignore the internet and listen to us." My question is, how long can they keep up that battle?
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"If this 'system of things' goes on..."
by Franklin Massey ini have been hearing more people saying this now than ever.
especially those in the over-40 crowd.
i just got off the phone with an older jw family member who was reviewing options for golden years living.
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Franklin Massey
I have been hearing more people saying this now than ever. Especially those in the over-40 crowd. I just got off the phone with an older JW family member who was reviewing options for Golden Years living. They have been helping family members older than them transition in to smaller apartments and assisted living places as their health deteriorates late in life. This particular person has a good 15+ years before they would be be at a point where they may have to face that kind of decision. They said, "I need to consider where I would want to live out the rest of my life in case this system goes on." A little later they added, "You know, a lot of these older ones though they would live to see Armageddon. I don't want to put off making arrangements in case it doesn't come before I die."
I don't want to be too optimistic about this. Yes, they still think Armageddon is coming. The thing that interests me is the willing recognition that it may not come in time for them to see it. The person mentioned above was one of those who told me when I was young that I wouldn't have to go to high school, get married, etc., because the end is so close. Fast forward 20-30 years and now this same person is willing to acknowledge that it may not be as soon as they thought.
Some who have been willing to express these types of comments aloud will feel guilty about showing a "lack of urgency" and so they finish the statement off with something like, "But I just can't see how God could let it go on much longer. Things are getting worse every day." Still, they were willing to entertain the idea.
Is this a sign of the weakening of a core JW doctrine; one that has the ability to exercise power over the masses? Judgement Day is a whip that religion has used repeatedly to keep followers in line. If more are willing to admit, at the very least, that Armageddon might not be that close, does the WT begin to lose its grip on the JWs?
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Are you a fader, Df'd, DA'd, or Still In?
by brotherdan ini thought this would be an interesting poll that would show everyone the backgrounds of all of us when we left, if we have.. for myself, i am not df'd, but i am attempting a fade.
i still go to some meetings with the wife to help with kids, but that's it.
no commenting or field service.. what about everyone else?.
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Franklin Massey
Very much in. Appointed man, lots of duties, public talks, the whole nine yards. Being in the Org is the only part of my life that feels like a lie. I'm basically an actor. I've gone through the idea of DA but it would destroy my family and friends and they are more important to me than my personal preference of not being a JW. I'll continue to push through and hopefully loosen the grip that the WT holds on those I love the most. If I can devise an effective fade plan, I will. Its quite hard when you have so many responsibilities in the congregation.
Sincerely, Franklin "Faking My Way Through It" Massey*
Name has been changed to protect the identity of poster